CERN’s Evolution to Cloud Computing Portends Revolution in Extreme IT Productivity?

Transcript of a BriefingsDirect podcast on the move to cloud computing for data-intensive operations, focusing on the work being done by the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

Listen to the podcast. Find it on iTunes/iPod and Podcast.com. Download the transcript. Sponsor: Platform Computing.

Dana Gardner: Hi, this is Dana Gardner, principal analyst at Interarbor Solutions, and you’re listening to BriefingsDirect. Today, we present a sponsored podcast discussion on some likely directions for cloud computing based on the exploration of expected cloud benefits at a cutting edge global IT organization.

We are going to explore the thinking on how cloud computing both the private and public varieties might be useful at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research in Geneva.

CERN has long been an influential bellwether on how extreme IT problems can be solved. Indeed, the World Wide Web owes a lot of its usefulness to early work done at CERN. Now the focus is on cloud computing. How real is it, and how might an organization like CERN approach cloud?

In many ways CERN is quite possibly the New York of cloud computing. If cloud can make it there, it can probably make it anywhere. That's because CERN deals with fantastically large data sets, massive throughput requirements, a global workforce, finite budgets, and an emphasis on standards and openness.

So please join us, as we track the evolution of high-performance computing (HPC) from clusters to grid to cloud models through the eyes of CERN, and with analysis and perspective from IDC, as well as technical thought leadership from Platform Computing.

Join me in welcoming our panel today, Tony Cass, Group Leader for Fabric Infrastructure and Operations at CERN. Welcome, Tony.

Tony Cass: Pleased to meet you.

Gardner: We’re also here with Steve Conway, Vice President in the High Performance Computing Group at IDC. Welcome, Steve.

Steve Conway: Thanks. Welcome to everyone.

Gardner: And, we're also here with Randy Clark, Chief Marketing Officer at Platform Computing. Welcome Randy.

Randy Clark: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Gardner: Over the last several years, we've seen cloud computing become quite popular as a concept. It remains largely confined to experimentation, but this notion of private cloud computing is being scoped out by many large and influential enterprises as well as large early adopters like CERN.

Let me go to you Steve Conway. What's the difference between private and public cloud and how far away are any tangible benefits of cloud computing from your perspective?

Already here

Conway: Private cloud computing is already here, and quite a few companies are exploring it. We already have some early adopters. CERN is one of them. Public clouds are coming. We see a lot of activity there, but it's a little bit further out on the horizon than private or enterprise cloud computing.

Just to give you an example, we just did a piece of research for one of the major oil and gas companies, and they're actively looking at moving part of their workload out to cloud computing in the next 6-12 months. So, this is really coming up quickly.

Gardner: So, this notion of having a cohesive approach to computing and blending what you do on premises with these other providers isn't just pie in the sky. This is really something people are serious about.

Conway: Well, CERN is clearly serious about it in their environment. As I said, we're also starting to see activity pick up with cloud computing in the private sector with adoption starting somewhere between six months from now and, for some, more like 12-24 months out.

Gardner: Randy Clark, from your perspective, how many customers of Platform Computing would you consider to be seriously evaluating what we now refer to as public or private cloud?

Clark: We have formally interviewed over 200 customers out of our installed base of 2,000. A significant portion -- I wouldn’t put an exact number on that, but it's higher than we initially anticipated -- are looking at private-cloud computing and considering how they can leverage external resources such as Amazon, Rackspace and others. So, it's easily a third and possibly more.

Gardner: Tony Cass, let's go to you at CERN. Tell us first a little bit about CERN for those of our readers who don’t know that much or aren't that familiar. Tell us about the organization and what it does, and then we can start to discuss your perceptions about cloud.

Cass: We're a laboratory that exists to enable, initially Europe’s and now the world’s, physicists to study fundamental questions. Where does mass come from? Why don’t we see anti-matter in large quantities? What's the missing mass in the universe? They're really fundamental questions about where we are and what the universe is.

We do that by operating an accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider, which collides protons thousands of times a second. These collisions take place in certain areas around the accelerator, where huge detectors analyze the collisions and take something like a digital photograph of the collision to understand what's happening. These detectors generate huge amounts of data, which have to be stored and processed at CERN and the collaborating institutes around the world.

We have something like 100,000 processors around the world, 50 petabytes of disk, and over 60 petabytes of tape. The tape is in just a small number of the centers, not all of the hundred centers that we have. We call it "computing at the terra-scale," that's terra with two R's. We’ve developed a worldwide computing grid to coordinate all the resources that we have with the jobs of the many physicists that are working on these detectors.

Gardner: So, to look at the IT problem and unpack it a little bit. You're dealing with such enormous amounts of data. You’ve been in the distribution of these workloads for quite some time. Maybe you could explain a little bit the evolution of how you've distributed and managed such extreme workload?

No central management

Cass: If you look at the past, in the 1990’s, we had people collaborating, but there was no central management. Everybody was based at different institutes and people had to submit the workloads, the analysis, or the Monte Carlo simulations of the experiments they needed.

We realized in 2000-2001 that this wasn’t going to work and also that the scale of resources that we needed was so vast that it couldn’t all be installed at CERN. It had to be shared between CERN, a small number of very reliable centers we call the Tier One centers and then 100 or so Tier Two centers at the universities. We were developing this thinking around the same time as the grid model was becoming popular. So, this is what we’ve done.

What a lot of the grid academics have done is in understanding or exploring what could be done with the grid, as an idea. What we've been focusing on is making it work and not pushing the envelope in terms of the technology, but pushing the envelope in terms of the scale to make sure that it works for the users. We connect the sites. We run tens of thousands of jobs a day across this and gradually we’ve run through a number of exercises to distribute the data at gigabytes a second and tens of thousands of jobs a day.

We've progressively deployed grid technology, not developed it. We've looked at things that are going on elsewhere and made them work in our environment.

Gardner: As I understand it, the interest you have in cloud isn’t strictly a matter of ripping and replacing, but augmenting what you're already doing vis-a-vis these grid models.

Cass: Exactly. The grid solves the problem in which we have data distributed around the world and it will send jobs to the data. But, there are two issues around that. One is that if the grid sends my job to site A, it does so because it thinks that a batch slot will become available at site A first. But, maybe a grid slot becomes available at site B and my job is site A. Somebody else who comes along later actually gets to run their job first.

Today, the experiment team submits a skeleton job to all of the sites in order to detect which site becomes available first. Then, they pull down my job to this site. You have lots of schedulers involved in this -- in the experiment, the grid, and the site -- and we're looking at simplifying that.

These skeleton jobs also install software, because they don’t really trust the sites to have installed the software correctly. So, there's a lot of inefficiency there. This is symptomatic of a more general problem. Batch workers are good at sharing resources that are relatively static, but not when the demand for resource types changes dynamically.

So, we’re looking at virtualizing the batch workers and dynamically reconfiguring them to meet the changing workload. This is essentially what Amazon does with EC2. When they don’t need the resources, they reconfigure them and sell the cycles to other people. This is how we want to work in virtualization and cloud with the grid, which knows where the data is.

Gardner: Steve Conway, you’ve been tracking HPC for some time at IDC. Maybe you have some perceptions on how CERN is a leading adopter of IT over the years, the types of problems they're solving now, or the types of problems other organizations will be facing in the future. Could you tell us about this management issue and do you think that this is going to become a major requirement for cloud computing?

World technology leader

Conway: Starting with CERN, their scientists have earned multiple Nobel prizes over the years for their work in particle physics. As you said before, CERN is where Tim Berners-Lee and his colleagues invented the World Wide Web in the 1980s.

More generally, CERN is a recognized world leader in technology innovation. What’s been driving this, as Tony said, are the massive volumes of data that CERN generates along with the need to make the data available to scientists, not only across Europe, but across the world.

For example, CERN has two major particle detectors. They're called CMS and ATLAS. ATLAS alone generates a petabyte of data per second, when it’s running. Not all that data needs to be distributed, but it gives you an idea of the scale or the challenge that CERN is working with.

In the case of CERN’s and Platform’s collaboration, as Tony said, the idea is not just to distribute the data but also the applications and the capability to run the scientific problem.

CERN is definitely a leader there, and cloud computing is really confined today to early adopters like CERN. Right now, cloud computing services constitute about $16 billion as a market.

IDC: By 2012, which is not so far away, we project that spending for cloud computing is going to grow nearly threefold to about $42 billion. That would make it about 9 percent of IT spending.

That’s just about four percent of mainstream IT spending. By 2012, which is not so far away, we project that spending for cloud computing is going to grow nearly threefold to about $42 billion. That would make it about 9 percent of IT spending. So, we predict it’s going to move along pretty quickly.

Gardner: How important is this issue that Tony brought up about being able to manage in a dynamic environment and not just more predictable static batch loads?

Conway: It’s the single biggest challenge we see for not only cloud computing, but it has affected the whole idea of managing these increasingly complex environments -- first clusters, then grids, and now clouds. Software has been at the center of that.

That’s one of the reasons we're here today with Platform and CERN, because that’s been Platform’s business from the beginning, creating software to manage clusters, then grids, and now clouds, first for very demanding, HPC sites like CERN and, more recently, also for enterprise clients.

Gardner: Randy Clark, as you look at the marketplace and see organizations like CERN changing their requirements, what, in your thinking, is the most important missing part from what you would do in management with HPC and now cloud? What makes cloud different, from a management perspective?

Dynamic resources

Clark: It’s what Tony said, which is having the resources be dynamic not static. Historically, clusters and grids have been relatively static, and the workloads have been managed across those. Now, with cloud, we have the ability to have a dynamic set of resources.

The trick is to marry and manage the workloads and the resources in conjunction with each other. Last year, we announced our cloud products -- Platform LSF and Platform ISF Adaptive Cluster -- to address that challenge and to help this evolution.

Gardner: Let’s go back to Tony Cass. Tell me what you’re doing with cloud in terms of exploration. I know you’re not in a position to validate, or you haven’t put in place, any large-scale implementation or solutions that would lead the market. But, I’m very curious about what the requirements are. What are the problems that you're trying to solve that you think cloud computing specifically can be useful in?

Cass: The specific problem that we have is to deliver the most physics we can within the fixed budget and the fixed amount of resources. These are limited either by money or by data-center cooling and generally are much less than the experiment wants. The key aim is to deliver the most cycles we can and the most efficient computing we can to the physicists.

I said earlier that we're looking at virtualization to do this. We’ve been exploring how to make sure that the jobs can work in a virtual environment and that we can instantiate virtual machines (VMs), as necessary, according to the different experiments that are submitting workloads at one time to integrate the instantiation of VMs with the batch system.

At the moment, we're looking at how you can reliably send a virtual image that's generated at one place to another site.

Once we got that working, we figured that the real problem was managing the number of VMs. We have something like 4,000 boxes, but if you have a VM per call, plus a few spare, then it can easily get to 60,000, 70,000, or 80,000 VMs. Managing these is the problem that we are trying to explore now, moving away from “can we do it” to “can we do it on a huge scale?”

Gardner: Are you yet at the point where you want to be able to manage the VMs that you have under your own control, and perhaps starting to deploy virtualized environments and workloads in someone else’s cloud and make them managed and complementary.

Cass: There are two aspects to that. The resources in our community are at other sites, and all of the sites are very independent. They are also academic environments. So, they are exploring things in their own way as well. At the moment, we're looking at how you can reliably send a virtual image that's generated at one place to another site.

Amazon does this, but there are tight constraints in the way they manage that cluster, because they built it thinking about this. Universities maybe didn’t build their own cluster in a way that separates that out from some of the other computing they're doing. So, there are security and trust implications there that we are looking at. That will be a thing to collaborate on long-term.

More cost effective

Certainly, if we configure things in our own way, when we look in a cloud environment, perhaps it will be more cost effective for us to only purchase the equipment we need for the average workload and they buy resources from Amazon or other providers. But, there are interesting things you have to explore about the fact that the data is not at Amazon, even if they have the cycles.

There are so many things that we’re thinking about. The one we’re focusing on at the moment is effectively managing the resources that we have here at CERN.

Gardner: Steve Conway, it sounds as if CERN has, with its partnered network, a series of what we might call private-cloud implementations and they're trying to get them to behave in concert at what we might call at a public cloud level. That exercise could, as with the World Wide Web, create some de-facto standards and approaches that might, in fact, help what we call hybrid cloud computing moving forward. Does that fairly surmise where we are?

Conway: That’s right. There are going to have to be more rigorous open standards for the clouds. What Tony was talking about at CERN is something that we see elsewhere. People are turning to public clouds today -- "turning to" just meaning exploring at this point for a way to handle overload work and search workloads.

But, we're seeing some smaller and medium-size businesses looking to public clouds as a way to avoid having to purchase their own internal resources . . . and also as a way of avoiding having to hire experts who know how to operate them.

The Internet itself is a pretty high latency network, if you think of it that way. People are looking to send portions of the workload that doesn't have a lot of communication dependencies particularly inter-processor communication dependencies, because the latency doesn't support that.

But, we're seeing some smaller and medium-size businesses looking to public clouds as a way to avoid having to purchase their own internal resources, clusters for example, and also as a way of avoiding having to hire experts who know how to operate them. For example, engineering services firms don't have those experts in house today.

Gardner: Back to you Tony Cass, I know this is still a bit hypothetical, but if there were the standards in place, and you were able to go to a third-party cloud provider for some of these spikes or occasionally dynamically generated workloads that perhaps exceed your current on-premise’s capabilities, would this be a financial boon to you, where you could protect your pricing and you could decide the right supply and demand fit when it comes to these extreme computing problems?

Cass: It would certainly be a boon. The possibility is being demonstrated by experiments that are actually based at Brookhaven to do simulations that are CPU-intensive, where they don't need much data transfer or data access. They have been able to run simulations cost-effectively with EC2.

Although their cycles, compared to some of the things we're doing, are more expensive, if we don't have to buy all of the resources, we could certainly save money. Another aspect is that it is beyond money in some sense. If you need to get something fixed for a conference, and you are desperately trying to decide whether or not you’ve discovered the Higgs then it's not a case of “money's no object,” but you can get the resources from a cloud much more quickly than you can install capacity at CERN. So both aspects are definitely of interest.

Gardner: Randy Clark, this makes a great deal of sense from the perspective of a large research organization. But, we're not just talking about specific workloads. We're talking about workloads that will be common across many other vertical industries or computing environments. Can you name a few, or mention some from your experience, where we should expect the same sorts of economic benefits to play out.

Different use cases

Clark: What we're seeing is across industries. Financial services is certainly taking a leadership role. There's a lot going on in the semiconductor or electronic industry. Business intelligence (BI) is across industries and government. So, across industries, we see different use cases.

To your point, these use cases are enterprise applications to run the business, and we're seeing that in Java applications, test and development environments, and traditional HPC environments.

That's something driven by the top of the organization. Tony and Steve laid it out well. They look at the public/private cloud economically, and say, "Architecturally, what does this mean for our business?" Without any particular application in mind they're asking how to evolve to this new model. So, we're seeing it very horizontally and, to your point, in enterprise and HPC applications.

Gardner: Steve Conway, thinking about these large datasets, Randy brought up BI, and that, of course, means warehousing, data analytics, and advanced analytics. A lot of organizations are creating datasets at a scale never anticipated, never mind seen before, things from sensors, mobile devices, network computing, or social networking.

BI is one of those markets that, in its attributes, straddles the world of HPC and enterprise computing just as financial services does . . .

How do we bring together these compute resources, the raw power with these large data sets. I think this is an issue that CERN might also be a bellwether on, in somehow managing these large data sets and the compute power, bringing them architecturally into alignment.

Conway: BI is one of those markets that, in its attributes, straddles the world of HPC and enterprise computing just as financial services does, in the sense that they have workloads that don't have a whole lot of communications dependencies. They don't need networks with very high latency for the most part.

You see organizations like the University of Phoenix, which has 280,000 online students, that have already made this evolution -- in this case, with Platform helping them out -- from clusters to grid computing today. Now, they're looking toward cloud computing as a way to take them further.

You also see that not just in the private sector side. One of the other active customers that's really looking in that same direction is the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), which has moved to from clusters to grid computing.

What you're seeing here is people who have already stepped through the earlier stages of this evolution. They've gone from clusters to grid computing for the most part and now are contemplating the next move to cloud computing. It's an evolutionary move. It could have some revolutionary implications, but, from a technological standpoint, sometimes evolutionary is much safer and better than revolutionary.

Gardner: Tell us about some of the solutions that you now need to bring to market or are bringing to market around management and other issues? Where have you found that the rubber hits the road, in terms of where people can take this in real time? What's the current state of the art? Rather than talking about hypothetical, what's now possible, when it comes to moving from cluster and grid to the revolution of cloud?

Interaction of technologies

Clark: What Platform sees is the interaction of distributed computing and new technologies like virtualization requiring management. What I mean by that is the ability, in a large farm or shared environment, to share resources and then make those resources dynamic. It's the ability to add virtualization into those on the resource side, and then, on the server side, to make it Internet accessible, have a service catalog, and move from providing IT support to truly IT as a competitive service.

The state of the art is that you can get the best of Amazon, ease of use, cost, accessibility with the enterprise configuration, scale, and dependability of the enterprise grid environment.

There isn't one particular technology or implementation that I would point to, to say "That is state of the art," but if you look across the installations we see in our installed base, you can see best practices in different dimensions with each of those customers.

Gardner: Randy, what are some typical ways that you're seeing people getting started, when they want to make these leaps from evolutionary progression to revolutionary paybacks? Where do they start making that sort of catalytic difference?

Taking a step back, we see customers thinking about architecturally how do they want to have that management layer.

Clark: The evolution is the technology, as Steve said. The revolution is in the approach architecturally to how to get to that new spot.

Taking a step back, we see customers thinking about architecturally and how they want to have that management layer. What is that management layer going to mean to them going forward? And, can they quickly identify a set of applications and resources and get started?

So, there is an architecture piece to it, thinking about what the future will hold, but then there is a very pragmatic piece -- let's get going, let's engage, let's build something and be able to scale that out over time. We saw that approach in grid computing. We're encouraging folks to think, but then also to get started.

Gardner: Tony Cass at CERN, what are your next steps? Where would you expect to be heading next as you explore the benefits and possible real-world opportunities?

Cass: We’re definitely concentrating for the moment on how we exploit effective resources here. The wider benefits we'll have to discuss with our community.

Gardner: What would you like to see happen next?

Focusing on delivery

Cass: What I would like to see happen next is a definite cloud environment at CERN, where we move from something that we're thinking about to something that is in operation, where we have the ability to use resources that aren’t primarily dedicated for physics computing to deliver cycles to experiment. I'd like to see a cloud, a dynamically evolving environment in our computer center. We’re convinced it's possible, but delivering that is what we’re focusing on.

Gardner: Steve Conway, where do you see things headed next? What are the next steps that we should look for, as we move from that evolutionary progression to more of a revolutionary productivity?

Conway: It's along a couple of dimensions. One is the dimension of people actually working in these environments. In that sense, the CERN-Platform collaboration is going to help drive the whole state of the art forward over the next period of time.

People are a little bit concerned about testing their data there. The evolution of standards is going to accelerate this trend.

The other one, as Randy mentioned before, it that the evolution of standards is going to be important. For example, right now, one of the barriers to public-cloud computing is vendor lock-in, where the cloud, the Amazons, the Yahoos, and so forth are not necessarily interoperable. People are a little bit concerned about testing their data there. The evolution of standards is going to accelerate this trend.

Gardner: Why don’t I give the last word today to Randy? Tell us about some information that's available out there for folks who are looking to explore and take some first steps toward this more revolutionary benefit.

Clark: I'd encourage everybody to visit our website. There are a number of white papers, webinars, and webcasts that we've done with other customers to highlight some other use cases within development, test, and production environments. I'd point people to the resource page on our website www.platform.com.

Gardner: I want to thank our guests. This has been a very interesting discussion, and I certainly look forward to following what CERN does, because I do think that they’re going to be a leader in terms of what many others will be end up doing in B2B cloud computing.

Thank you to Tony Cass, Group Leader for Fabric Infrastructure and Operations at CERN. Thank you, sir.

Cass: Thank you.

Gardner: And also a good, big thank you to Steve Conway, Vice President in the High Performance Computing Group at IDC. Thank you, Steve.

Conway: Thanks.

Gardner: And also, of course, thank you to Randy Clark, Chief Marketing Officer at Platform Computing.

Clark: Thank you for the opportunity.

Gardner: This is Dana Gardner, principal analyst at Interarbor Solutions. You've been listening to a sponsored BriefingsDirect podcast on what likely outcomes we can expect from cloud computing and architecture, on the progression from grid to cloud computing, and moving into a more revolutionary set of benefits. Thanks for listening and come back next time.

Listen to the podcast. Find it on iTunes/iPod and Podcast.com. Download the transcript. Sponsor: Platform Computing.

Transcript of a BriefingsDirect podcast on the move to cloud computing for data-intensive operations, focusing on the work being done by the European Organization for Nuclear Research. Copyright Interarbor Solutions, LLC, 2005-2010. All rights reserved.

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Webinar: IDC Research Shows SOA Adoption Deepens in Enterprises Based on Key Implementation Practices

Transcript of Oct. 14, 2008 webinar on SOA research and how companies are implementing SOA more strategically based on essential adoption best practices.

Listen to the podcast. Download the podcast. Access the Webinar. Learn more. Sponsor: Hewlett-Packard.

Download the IDC report "A Study in Critical Success Factors for SOA."

Introduction: Hello, and welcome to a special BriefingsDirect presentation, a podcast created from a recent Hewlett-Packard (HP) webinar on Service Oriented Architecture (SOA) adoption trends. The webinar examines recent findings and analysis from original IDC surveys and research into actual enterprise SOA use and their reported business outcomes.

We'll hear from executives at both IDC and HP on how SOA is rapidly increasing in its importance and value for developers, architects and IT strategists. The presentation is followed by a question and answer session from the live webinar audience.

Please now welcome the webinar moderator, BriefingsDirect's Dana Gardner.

Dana Gardner: Hello, and welcome to our live webcast, “Expanding SOA Adoption to Mainstream IT,” brought to you by HP and InfoWorld. I’m your moderator Dana Gardner, principal analyst at Interarbor Solutions.

Today we’re going to examine fresh research from IDC on SOA adoption patterns and what users of SOA identify as success factors. In other words, for those doing SOA right, what it is that led them there, and what is it that they’re doing that others can learn from, in terms of best practices and insight?

We’ll hear from Sandy Rogers, program director for SOA, Web services, and integration research at IDC. We’ll also hear from Kelly Emo, SOA product marketing manager for HP Software.

Now let's dig into SOA use today, and the adoption patterns that show how and why SOA is moving into mainstream IT. We’re seeing a move to a strategic SOA value that support business goals and not just SOA that supports IT goals, such as the benefits around code reuse or development agility.

We’re starting to see a great deal of movement to the strategic value of SOA, and that means moving toward the aspects that create the need for governance, develops SOA benefits across larger business processes, and starts to show the paybacks in terms of actual business outcomes.

What are the factors that determine the success of SOA, generating that strategic and business level payback? Let's now go to Sandy Rogers at IDC, and learn more about her research into success in a SOA world.

Sandra Rogers: Thank you, Dana. Hello, everyone. First of all, what we want to do is take a look at what has brought us to this period of time -- where we now need to create enterprise-level systems.

Right now, we’re seeing a lot of systems where their foundations are basically breaking, and we’re dealing with a mixture of different generations, different types of systems, different ways that they were developed, different technologies, and different ways that they are and continue to be procured. Enterprises are challenged to address new and changing business requirements, and that volatility of business change is increasing at very rapid rate.

Organizations are looking for much more consistency across enterprise activities and views, and are really finding a lot of competitive differentiation in being able to manage their processes more effectively. That requires the ability to stand across different types of systems and to respond, whether in a reactive mode or a proactive mode, to opportunities.

The types of individuals who are being served by these systems are different, and that’s because of the extended value change, new types of workers entering the workforce, and many different business models that require either some type of self-service capability, or even more of a high-touch personalized type of engagement and experience with systems.

What we’re finding is that, as we go to this generation, SOA, in and of itself, is spawning the ability to address new types of models, such as event-based processing, model-based processing, cloud computing, and appliances. We’re really, as a foundation, looking to make a strategic move. With that kind of structure, it's also balancing freedom.

So, moving on, what we see -- and this is a poll that was recently run by IDC this summer, primarily with mid- and large-sized organizations -- is that if they haven’t already adopted SOA, they are planning on it, and at greater levels of engagement. So, if it is not going to be "the" standard for most or all systems, it's important, and will be used for all new projects, or it's a preferred approach.

The issue is not necessarily deciding if they should go toward SOA. What we're finding is that for most organizations this is the way that they are going to move, and the question is just navigating how to best do that for the best value and for better success.

According to the same poll, what we show is the top IT objectives and challenges for SOA. We also asked for business objectives and IT objectives. What's different from past surveys that we've run is that the flexibility and agility to respond to changing business needs is actually number one now. In previous responses, that had been in the top tier of three, but not necessarily the first one.

What are most interesting are the top challenges in implementing SOA. All of our past studies reinforced that skills, availability of skills, and training in SOA continue to be a number one challenge. What’s really noticeable now is that setting up an SOA governance structure has reached the second most-indicated challenge. This is the top 3 of 18 options.

In the past you may have seen security or other technical elements, interoperability, or maturity of standards. What this is telling us is that we have reached another stage of maturity, and that in order to move forward organization will need to think about SOA as an overall program, and how it impacts both technology and people dimensions within the organization.

We find that when we ask this from a business objectives and challenges view, the business is looking at more efficient processes at greater levels of service and customer service throughout their entire environment. Some of their top challenges involve gaining agreement on what processes and services should exist, how to define those, and how to agree upon those, and also rallying individuals around support of budgeting and funding for SOA. This all points to an overall need to step up the ability to address this as a managed business discipline, versus a technology discipline.

Defining SOA Success

We wanted to look at how SOA's success is actually defined, even though SOA can have varying definitions amongst individuals, and what factors and practices in these organizations that are successful have the most impact. We wanted to see what tactics and technologies are being leveraged, and how they are being leveraged, and how they are being introduced and expanded within the enterprise.

Then, we wanted to see what other words of advice experienced leaders want to impart to others, as we are seeing a next wave of adopters that may be a little bit new to SOA, versus those that had come before.

So, with this study, we did primary research, mostly U.S.- and European-based companies who had successfully implemented enterprise SOA programs. Most of them had from two, to two-and-a-half, to over eight years of experience. Some of these companies actually had started their SOA endeavors at the turn of the century.

They’re senior level individuals with enterprise perspective and they’re primarily from the IT ranks. They also have had certain levels of experience that might range from CIO to enterprise architect, to quality manager. So, we got a broad-brush view, but most of these individuals were actually charged with, or were a core part of who was driving their SOA initiative in their organization.

This was based on a semi-structured interview format, so that while we wanted to capture some basic information about the overall IT environment structure, the SOA initiatives in particular, the technology, topology, the business goals, and drivers of the organization, we really won't have that broad brush view to present a context.

We also did this in a semi-structured way, in order not to skew the results and to unearth varying elements that may have influenced their success, despite what these individuals brought to the table. And, there was representation across various sized companies and industries sectors.

A few of the overarching trends reinforced what we have been seeing in some of our studies. We are indeed moving from project- and application-level SOA to more of a system and enterprise scale. And, the short- and long-term impact of SOA needs to be better understood and addressed. Enterprises need to manage the expectations of the individuals in the organizations as to how their roles will be impacted, and what kind of benefits they may get on a short term basis, versus that long term view and accumulation, and they need to try to balance strategy with tactics.

While technologies are key enablers, most of the study participants focused on organizational and program dynamics as being key contributors to success. Through technology, they are able to influence the impact of the activities that they are introducing into the overall SOA program.

That success can be defined in multiple dimensions, but rising to the top, we found that, in part because of their roles, the pervasiveness of SOA adoption in the enterprise was a key determinant of how they were looking at it, whether their programs were gaining traction in the right ways, and were being successful. They were achieving clear business results, and those that can be measured.

When we gathered all of this information, we had many different tactics and activities, and some of them started to become repetitive in our research. We created a framework of varying components, and elements that impacted success. Then, we aggregated these into seven key domains, as we call them.

Domains of SOA interest

While different elements can impact each different domain, and vice versa, it was interesting trying to think of a way to present his. All the different domains impact one another. Therefore, if you’re able to handle trust, you’re able to influence organizational change management effectiveness. If you’re able to address business alignment, then you’ll have much more success in understanding the impact on architecture and vice versa.

With this, it's much more of a network of different activities and components. The technologies interact on the network's foundation. When you really think about it, services is basically a network topology. SOA puts a wrapper around this environment, and tries to give it a foundation and a framework, for which it will function effectively.

The seven domains are: Business Alignment, Organizational Change Management, Communication, Trust, Scale and Sustainability, Architecture and Governance.

Now, we’re going to briefly go over these seven domains, and give some key trends that we discovered about how different activities and tactics can make each of these areas much more effective?

With business alignment we discovered that with these organizations and these individuals, SOA is truly understood as a business discipline. Now, many of them did admit that within their organization. They still have a way to go to educate, and incorporate SAO as more of a business view. It's often seen as more of an IT agenda, but that is starting to change. But, they themselves, in the way they have approached the issues, and the way that they are thinking about their program, see it as a business discipline.

That alignment of business to what is being incorporated in the program, services, and processes that are being created means the involvement of key individuals who have a keen understanding of the business. Sometimes, it might mean involving someone at a high enough level within a business division who can see how activities within that business division may be impacted or may impact other divisions, yet have enough understanding of some of the details around what transpires, what incorporates the business, what defines the business -- the elements and the processes -- and get them involved in the overall initiative.

These individuals also can influence others. They not only influence outcomes of what is actually being created, but they can actually influence the acceptance rate, the understanding of services of SOA within their network of individuals, and within the activities that they are involved in.

Many of these individuals can help with reflecting on what the current state of the environment is. That can actually help define what future state might need to be created. Think about the overall framework. I believe that you can get access to this and that HP is making it available to you for more detail. I know it's difficult to see here on the screen.

One of the factors highlighted here is indeed getting those individuals really involved, and helping them with determining a key business taxonomy, and vocabulary. It's very important that everyone get on the same page of how they are going to communicate with one another, and define that within an aligned business appropriate to what is being presented.

If we look at the next domain, organizational change management, one of the key factors we found is that many of these individuals did what they could do to ease the transition to ensure that individuals may not have overly complex requirements posed to them at the onset. They tried to figure out what the existing modus operandi was, incorporate what they could into that, and move the organization along. The key is to disseminate that knowledge, and give tools and different technologies that can help with that change, without imparting too much complexity, which disrupts, and/or impacts the goals that they are trying to achieve on a day-to-day basis.

This is very important, versus task initiatives that we have seen, where organizations put together a road map, expected the individuals to follow certain protocols, but really didn't think about how that would impact everything else that these individuals were involved in.

It also gets them to think outside the box across the enterprise. A way to do that is to show how different services are being created and what it looks like, giving them an overall understanding of the program, and driving cooperation through examples, and helping with their understanding by presenting them with concrete examples in their context. Then, they can start to envision what other types of services and processes it could be impacting, and who to get also involved if they want to build out this network impact.

One thing we found is that it's important to have that overall view of the program, of the enterprise, and to have key individuals as part of the central architecture team, the center of excellence, or whatever, work side-by-side with individuals on the different divisional development teams, the different business analysts involved. They can start to understand and impact the outcomes of initial projects.

Then through a train-the-trainer approach, they can get more individuals involved in utilizing what could be at their disposal. As time goes on and these organizations start automating more of the capabilities in the foundation for SOA, all of these different parties understand how to engage with the systems, take advantage of it, and then can start envisioning how to utilize them to their own success.

Successful communication proves essential

The next major domain is around communication. It was very important to these leaders that they were seen as a business leaders, as well as an IT leader. They were also evangelists, and politicians. They actually went out and did one-on-one discussions with key stakeholders. They would have discussions about what policies, protocols, and standards they were thinking about incorporating.

By the time those decisions needed to be agreed upon to gain that buy-in, a lot of that lobbying had happened behind the scenes, and there were a lot of lunch-and-learn type of sessions. That was really making those connections, and showing individuals how they could not only impact the success of the overall initiative, but also how they could actually gain some things from cooperating and drive that network effect.

In order to do that, a lot more visibility needed to be presented in a variety of different forms that these institutions used, and accessibility to this information is key. Trying not to have too many middlemen and trying to automate it, so individuals find what they needed, was very important.

Many of them had designed their own dashboards and wikis, different ways to present information on the overall program. They were thinking about the details, introducing things like registries and repositories from a more technical dimension. Engaging in more of a collaborative atmosphere really drove a lot and also allowed individuals to communicate with one another, and not always through the central team. This was very important.

Some smaller initiative may be able to run manually through a central group, but as soon as it started to extend, that's where they found that allowing different conversations and negotiations to happen, being able to have a potential policy consumer, finding various services, knowing how to engage with the service provider, and having that as automated as possible will not disrupt their daily routine. It will make it easier and will also capture all the necessary information to go forward, without having a lot of rework and lot of hand-holding. This was again very important that that kind of visibility and accessibility is so key.

That dovetails with the next domain, which is really about building trust, enabling cooperation, and building in a sense of security that these services are going to run and be available for someone to consume. Developers can now think about that loose coupling and drive more of a SOA architecture in what they’re developing. That sense of security is beyond just traditional security. It's performance. It's ensuring that the availability of that service is going to be there under load. There are lots of different concerns.

We found that many companies standardize security in the form of services embedded within the framework, foundation, and infrastructure that they had created for the SOA program. That, in and of itself, started alleviating the pressure on individuals to know exactly what security protocols to cover. They ensured identity rights and they could be protected, and mitigated their risks on inappropriate use of services.

They understood that this secure environment is important, and that the reputation of a service matters. That means validating that standards and policies were upheld and integrating what they could regarding testing and validation in the course of the lifecycle of developing their services. By the time a service was posted and available, that service could be depended on and there were no concerns about it. If this was being done manually or ad hoc, people found that they had different experiences.

One organization we interviewed found that over 50 percent of the services that were in production didn’t adhere to policies. As soon as they automated that and brought it up to 100 percent adherence, the network effect started to take over, regarding the consumption, use, and even the development of services.

The transparency and visibility into past behaviors and the history of the service is very important to individuals who are going to take that risk and take that step that they are not going to develop something on their own, but are going to reuse and capitalize on what is built out as this network of resources and services.

Architecture over technology

Of course, we can't talk about SOA without mentioning architecture, and what we kept hearing over and over again was that architecture should come first over technology. Many of these companies had to come up with reference architecture and had to prototype the technology and the reference architecture, so that it would be able to address reality.

In the past, I’ve heard, some of these enterprise architecture teams actually did, beyond a proof of concept, prototype the varying scenarios that were likely to serve in rolling out the architecture to more entities, more systems, more and system type.

So, setting the standards, setting the reference architecture, defining messages, schemas, and protocols -- more so than mandating the specific use of certain technologies -- was a real learning experience for these organizations. Large organizations, especially, may not be able to influence every technology that will be used or can't envision every single technology that will be introduced to the environment in the future.

What they needed to do was focus on all the architectural dimensions, best practices, and standards, and define those, so that when they needed to test whether technology could interact appropriately, they had much of this defined. That allowed that level of flexibility to flow through to the different divisions and teams. Thinking about architecture beyond technology, about the process of how you are dealing with setting up architecture, how you are engaging with architecture, and seeing it through it's different stages and lifecycle are very important.

Updating process and SOA technologies, vis-à-vis the overall IT environment, started to surface as a key concern in what needed to transpire. You can't treat SOA as a silo. You need to think about this as an overall environment that incorporates many different options. One of the major reasons people are moving to SOA is to take advantage of a heterogeneous mix of resources, whether internal to an organization, or external through an organization.

Thinking through those dynamics leads to the next domain, which is scale and sustainability, to prepare for that viral network effect and to automate and test for higher volumes of demands early on. We found some organizations that had either built some of their own technologies, or had sort of incorporated things that were available very early on in the decade. When it came time to scale out, and there was more pressure imposed on these systems, they really couldn’t handle the demand.

What we learned from them is to really make sure that you test that early. Even though you may not have the volume now, you may some day, and even one service could get hit by an unknown amount of consumption. Being able to prepare for that, and prepare your architecture, as well as your policies and your governance processes, to be more distributed and federated to prepare for more of a federated type of environment, means that these policies and technologies can scale out.

We found that it's a learning experience to get the right definition around a service, the right fit, and the right granularity. That's something that comes with experience, and you might need to go through a couple of iteration of services before people understand how to best keep volatility down on services, put the right level of abstracted tiers for processes and rules, and plan and test that you have the right levels. Then, you can scale out.

That may mean atomic services at some levels and more broad-grained services at others, and seeing how that impacts the infrastructure, and testing that out in all the different scenarios and dependencies that could exist.

Governance helps assure ongoing success

Last, but not least, the final domain, where we start impacting everyone, was the issue of bringing in proper governance. Thinking about it in balancing control with empowerment and driving consistency throughout the environment is very important. People needed to plan on the processes and ramp up the speed of development and deployment into production, until having that level of consistency was giving them huge amounts of business value, savings efficiencies, and opportunities in the market to differentiate and compete.

Making moves early to automate was a learning experience for a lot of these organizations that didn't do this. They found that they could have not only expanded their programs more effectively, but they could have mitigated their risks. They could have avoided a lot of rework, as they had automated governance processes earlier on, integrating it into the overall flow, as we stated before, and thinking about it not as a just “these are the things that need to be met and this is the information that needs to be captured.” It's really thinking about the processes.

What happens is that there are these exceptions, dealing with review committees that should be involved, determining the right roles and responsibilities, and sometimes that may mean amending what you have.

In other instances, it was creating anew. We found in other studies that a lot of organizations did not have strong governance. SOA almost forces these companies to do what they should have been doing all along around incorporating the right procedures around governance, and making that a non-intrusive approach.

If you make it too complex, no one is going to follow it. If you make it a mandated activity, without a lot of tools to help facilitate, it becomes a chore to do that non-intrusively. Also speaking to non-intrusive runtime governance, many of these organizations found that you really should have a centralized foundation of runtime governance incorporated into the fabric of the SOA architecture, and technology infrastructure.

From all the right monitoring and management around services, in particular portions of this network that's integrated together, you can gain that overall perspective and drive what’s necessary to move forward, both from a business goal perspective and from an IT topology perspective.

To quickly wrap up, here are some additional words of advice from the field. We found that enforcing policies, not putting off governance till later on, was very important, putting more efforts into business modeling, which many of these organizations are doing now. They said that they wished they had done a little bit more when thinking about the services that were created, focusing on preparing the architecture for much more process and innovation.

So, with that, I’d like to hand this off to Kelly Emo to speak on HP's offerings in the SOA space.

Kelly Emo: Thank you, Sandy. And good morning and afternoon, everyone. I’m just going to wrap up the webinar with about 10 minutes or so. I’m going to hit four main points that I think will dovetail nicely with what you heard today from Sandy Rogers, some great insights coming from customers who have “been there, done that,” and have been working with SOA for while. It’s real advice that we all can learn from.

I’m going to dive now into a little bit more context around why, if you’re doing SOA, now is absolutely the right time to be thinking about and working on a governance program. I’m going to share a few key governance-specific best practices that we've also gleaned from our customers who have been down the road of their SOA journey.

We’ll talk a little bit about the value of using an automated SOA governance platform, to help automate those manual activities and get you there faster. And, I’m going to wrap up with one customer success story, a customer who is almost complete with their SOA journey -- about 70 percent there -- and who sees significant business benefits through their investments in not only SOA, but SOA governance, and SOA management.

You heard from IDC the seven critical SOA success factors that came from this in-depth analysis of customers. The point that I want to reiterate here that was so powerful in this discussion is the idea that the seven domains are linked. By putting energy and effort in any one of them, you are setting yourself up for more success across the board.

What we are going to do now is drill down into that domain of governance. You’ll see as we talk through some of the key capabilities for SOA moving to the enterprise from a governance perspective, how it will help establish other success factors, like building our trust, or facilitating communication across IT silos, for example.

I’m just going to touch on this briefly. It's interesting here. HP has used this graphics for quite a while in talking about the need for governance, having a governance program that helps bring together the different IT stakeholders that play a part in the successful delivery and realization of business services that return the results that the business expects and that behave, so that they can be easily consumed, and reused for even more responsiveness and agility.

This graphic rings true even more now with the kind of pressures that our businesses and IT are under to realize the results of their investment in SOA faster with existing resources. What we’re seeing again and again with customers who have been implementing SOA and going down to the path of scaling it out, is that they have to invest in processes and best practices to not only deliver services, but to ensure that the services are of the highest quality, that they can be managed over time, and that policies are consistently applied, so that we can handle events like change and new consumption in a way that delivers the result that we expect.

We see many of our customers now crossing the enterprise scalability divide with their SOA, looking to incorporate SOA into their mainstream IT organizations, and they’re seeing the benefits of that initial investment in governance help them make that leap.

So why invest in SOA governance now? It's an interesting question I’ve been getting a lot lately. “Hey, you know, we’re under a lot of economic pressure, budgets are tight, there's fewer resources to do the same work.” This sounds counter-intuitive, absolutely, but this is the right time to make that investment in SOA governance, because the benefits are going to pay off significantly.

SOA governance is all about helping IT get to the expected business benefits of their SOA. You can think of SOA governance, in essence, as IT's navigation system to get to the end goal of SOA. What it's going to help IT do, as they look to scale SOA out, is to more broadly foster trust across those distributed domains. It's going to help become a catalyst for communication and collaboration, and it's going to help jump-start that non-expert staff.

You may recall that Sandy mentioned one of the biggest challenges with SOA is building out the education and expertise among the staff. If governance can assist in shrinking that learning curve, enable IT organizations to understand the unique attributes of SOA and what process is need to be applied to successfully realize their SOA goal, that will help accelerate the transformation that needs to occur from the SOA perspective.

The thing that's key about governance is that it helps integrate those silos of IT. It helps integrate the folks who are responsible for designing services with those who actually have to develop the back end implementations and with those who are doing the testing of performance and functionality. Alternately, it integrated them with the organizations that are responsible for both deploying the services and the policies and integration logic that will support accessing those services.

So, governance becomes the catalyst for integrating these silos and facilitating communication. One of the keys, one of the best practices we are seeing across these customers, is that they approach governance from a lifecycle perspective. They are not just thinking of one aspect, but they are actually thinking of all the different collaboration points, all the different key decisions that need to be made, as a service goes from initial concept, into its design, into the development organizations that are responsible for delivering the implementations, out into the QA organizations that are responsible for defining the requirements for testing aspects of those services.

This includes the functional test, the performance test, the security test, and then out into the operational teams. These teams will be responsible for deploying services into the network, and understanding the implications on the stacks, and data sources, services access, and those that are responsible for deploying policies, such as authentication policies, authorization policies, the protocol mediations, and all the way back into the change process.

On ramps to governance

I'm not saying that an organization has to automate and create a complete governance infrastructure for all aspects of the lifecycle on day one. Certainly, there’s going to be the starting point that's going to make the most sense, based on the organization's maturity. Maybe the first thing to bite off is automating how organizations can get visibility of services and putting some automated policy checks in place on the design side for testing supportive standards and interoperability.

By keeping a perspective on lifecycle governance, your organization can be primed and ready to handle SOA, as it scales, as more and more services go into production, and more and more services are deemed to be ready for consumption and reuse into new composite applications.

The key is to keep a service lifecycle governance perspective in mind, as you go about your governance program, and automation is key. Sandy touched on this, and my intent here is not to talk through all aspects of this slide, but just to show you that there are a number of different aspects of governance that can be automated. If they are, that will have significant efficiency pay off downstream.

Automating policy compliance can bring a huge pay off. Sandy mentioned an example where a customer went into their governance program assuming that people were doing the right thing and found initially that fewer than 50 percent of the services being built were actually in compliance with the design policies that they have established to meet their corporate and IT objective.

Automation that will ensure that those issues can be caught quickly, and the collaboration and processes can be put in place to affect that behavior, and alternately work into that network effect that Sandy talked about can not only be in compliance, but also be something to brag about.

This next slide makes a point that I think is important here. I talk to a lot of folks about SOA. When you talk about a service lifecycle, it's very different than a traditional application lifecycle. It builds upon the concept of an app lifecycle, where you have a planning, building, testing, deploying, and changed cycle, but you also have the impact of consumption. Those are the consuming services and will have a lifecycle of their own.

It involves planning what services they are going to consume in the building out of the composite application, locating those services, engaging in a contractual relationship with the service provider, and alternately testing and delivering that composite application. Then, if there is a change on either side of the equation, if there is a change to the underlying service or a change to the composite application that, in turn, impacts, both the service and the composite application from a expectations perspective and, potentially, in performance and quality perspective.

The SOA lifecycle can actually be thought of as concentric circles. It's an iterative, living, breathing thing, and that's why service lifecycle governance is so key, to keep all these dependencies and the synthetic relationship, moving smoothly forward in terms of meeting its business objective over time, not just the initial deployment, but as both services and consumption patterns change. And governance is a powerful tool to manage this power, and complexity downstream.

So what I am going to show you next are a couple of key things you can do with the governance program to help you manage and scale. The first is really thinking about this idea of the service manager. I talked about the lifecycles of providing a service and consuming a service. A service manager is either a real or virtual person who is responsible for ensuring that the service is delivering against the goals of the business, not just at its initial deployment, but as different people are consuming it.

When I say a “virtual person,” I realize how funny that sounds. I don't literally mean a virtual person. What I mean is that it could be the service provider, or could be a committee of service providers, key service consumers, and maybe a line-of-business owner.

Manage the services like a service

What we are finding more and more now is that organizations are actually investing in a role known as service manager, someone who oversees the implication of not only delivering a service over time, but those that are consuming it. I see this as a best practice that can be supported by SOA governance, and which helps empower them by giving them a foundation to set up policies and have visibility in terms of how this service is meeting its objective and who is consuming the service.

Sandy talked a little bit about this as well. This is another best practice we are seeing mature customers that are being successful, and that's the way SOA governance deploys out there. That's bringing together the robust and well-developed processes around SOA governance and quality assurance, and creating a collaborative environment between those that are responsible for managing the entire testing process of new applications and services and those that are involved with the initial planning, with the design of services, and the governance of services.

You can actually get a dialog going between your enterprise architecture and planning teams, your development teams, and your testing teams, in terms of the expectations, and requirements right upfront, as the concept of the service is being ferreted out.

Get that communication occurring, so that everybody knows what are the key aspects we are going to test, how we are going to deliver it, what the expectations are, and what the policies are from a quality perspective that’s going to drive governance decisions downstream.

A really simple example comes from a customer who automated a very simple policy, which said that if a service has any critical or serious defects, we won’t allow it to be pushed into the staging environment, but rather we’ll flag it, bring it back into the testing process, and have it a discussion around how we’re going to mitigate those requirements. That doesn't sound like a lot of work, but it was important as the number of services scaled up to really automate that collaboration, and ensure that things didn't fall in the cracks.

Ultimately, it's about driving collaboration between the enterprise architecture and development team and the quality assurance team through automated governance, connected to quality. The same thing can be said about operations, by aligning and integrating the processes and knowledge that’s gleaned through the planning, and design processes, and the governance processes about how services are expected to behave once they go into deployment.

With the information that flows to the operations team, what we avoid is throwing a service over the wall, and then testing to figure it out. As a result, the SOA and the operational aspects of a service that ultimately get realized in production align with the original expectations that we are established.

You get the service behavior that was originally intended, and as your SOA scales and you get more and more services out there, this becomes essential. It keeps that line of communication seamless and flowing between the planning side and the delivery side, so that you get the behavior that meets the needs of the service consumers, and ultimately the business. And again, automated governance can help with this.

HP just recently announced the third generation of our automated governance platform, HP SOA Systinet. We’re positioning this as IT's navigation system for SOA. It’s designed at the core to guide our customers through their SOA journey by automating the governance aspects of the service lifecycle. This will ensure that the policies that are defined and automated, at the design, planning, and build side, as well as at the testing and run side, will map to the goals of the business in IT.

There are a number of functions inside Systinet designed to empower that concept of the service manager, supporting both parts of the lifecycle by providing a service, and the consumption of services, and supporting that collaboration between those responsible for providing services, and those who want to engage in a contractual relationship with them. Ultimately, the idea behind Systinet 3.0 is IT's objective in scaling out their SOA across their enterprise to realize the business value of their SOA investments faster, which is so important in today's environment.

Success stories from the field

Let's talk about a customer who has actually done this. This is the success story of a major European telecom provider. They’ve implemented approximately 70 percent of their SOA objective and right from the get-go, they made an investment in SOA governance. What they have seen over the last three years is an ROI of 327 percent, and it's really benefited them in four main dimensions.

First, they’ve been able to reduce the amount of downtime in the provisioning and delivery of new mobile subscribers services. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the services that are being delivered have been designed compliant to policies and have been tested and confirmed that they will deliver the behavior that was expected in terms of how they execute an operation.

The customer has also been able to increase customer retention, which has really resulted from two things, faster delivery of new services, and reduced downtime.

They've been able to reduce the time to market behind the delivery of new services, because of the timing of the communication flows, and ensuring interoperability and compliance.

And, they have seen an overall IT cost reduction of a significant amount of money, almost a million dollars, with their investment in SOA governance from the get-go.

Investing in SOA governance, as I mentioned at the very beginning of my presentation, while it may require a little investment upfront, can have a significant and powerful payoff downstream, when you go to move SOA out into the mainstream.

With that, I’m just about out of time, and I want to make sure that we have some time for Q and A, for both Sandy and myself. So, here is a pointer to where you can learn more, as both Dana and Sandy mentioned upfront. The IDC research is available on www.hp.com/go/soa, so you can download the reports and dig in to the specific detail behind what was shared with you today.

So, I’m going to turn it back to Dana and let him lead Q and A.

Gardner: Thank you, Kelly. Now that we've had a few questions, I’m going to direct the first one -- from me, actually -- to Sandy. I wanted to find out if there were any real surprises, any unexpected results, when you went out to the field to uncover SOA practices. Was there anything that caught you by surprise?

Rogers: What was interesting was that when it comes to providing metrics around the SOA experience, we have got a long way to go. A lot of organizations knew about different approaches to SOA management in monitoring, and understanding dimensions around the environment well before they made those investments.

Then, they still followed the same pattern that we have seen in past generations of technology where, when we were first being introduced in the marketplace, people said they weren't going to make the same sort of mistakes. It seems that SOA is very much like other initiative.

What they are doing now is a really fast catch-up in finding a lot of immediate value from doing that. Part of that had to do with gaining the buy-in, justifying the investments. What most of these organizations are discovering is that the last mile is dealing with that funding hurdle, showing that kind of value. What they’re realizing is that if they have these kinds of capabilities, they would have been able to measure that value much earlier.

It's more of a word of advice that we were getting than it was a real surprise, but it's something that, as an industry watcher, you just sort of see. Also, a lot of these organizations are indeed starting to tackle Web 2.0, and mashups for other kinds of dimensions within their organization. They really see it as an overarching type of trend. They don't see these as separate technology initiatives, and that's actually a pleasant type of view and a surprise to me as an analyst to see that. That sort of holistic view is starting to take hold.

Gardner: Here's another question directed at Sandy. You mentioned that the automating governance is an important element. What best practices have you seen for convincing the management in these enterprises to start an automated governance program?

Rogers: I was mentioning that just a moment ago. The kind of visibility that you are able to give to management presents the information on what services are being incorporated. But, if those services are designed well, you can actually be able to track that to key performance indicators (KPIs) in business measures and understand how this can be justified and funded? That kind of visibility is very important.

The other thing with automating governance, and I think Kelly referred to this, is that you do not need to do it all at once. That really targets protecting the environment, being able to automate as much as possible, have standards services, and schema automatically populated in the tools, and have that shared metadata concept start to expand. So, whether you’re creating services from one tool or another, that metadata is being captured. As time proceeds, you act on that metadata in the form of what kinds of policies you need, and so the threshold you measure that you can achieve is an overall process.

Gardner: This is a question for Kelly. The European company mentioned that had the 320 percent-plus return on investment. Did they start their SOA with SOA management or governance? What best practices have you learned about when to start managing SOA?

Emo: It’s a very good question. In that particular scenario, they actually started first with management, because they were having downtime issues. What they found right away, as they started to instrument their SOA environment and understand where the issues were taking place, was the part of the problem was inconsistency, in terms of what the operational team understood they were supposed to do, when they provisioned out of service from a load balancing, a security, and an overall performance perspective.

They found very rapidly that if they put governance in place to start to capture those expectations back on the design side, and then communicate those expectations to operations, they were able to alleviate that gap. They are now at a point where they're automating a production deployment of services using templates that come out of the governance side. So, they’re seeing additional timesavings in terms of how quickly they can provision new mobile subscriber services to their customer base.

Gardner: Okay, I have another. I think it’s directed to Sandy. SOA is not happening in a vacuum. There are other major undertakings in IT departments and across enterprises of virtualization, cloud computing, data center consolidation have all have been quite prominent lately. The question is, how does SOA help or align with these other types of goals that IT is tackling?

Rogers: When it comes being able to support an effort like consolidation, the whole idea behind what a lot of people are doing with SOA is to try to consolidate on core functional and information elements, and then share those to the rest of the enterprise, and through different applications and systems.

So, it dovetails very nicely with consolidation. What a lot of organizations might do is try to consolidate first and then think about enabling with services. However, being able to expose varying parts of different systems and have that visibility into the core services and how they are being used can actually facilitate on both consolidation and modernization efforts.

When it comes to initiatives like cloud computing and virtualization, it's really thinking about the overall architecture, what kind of interfaces that you have, what kind of service needs to be supported in a virtualized environment being able to componentize, and modularize it, and allow for that necessary interoperability.

When you think about virtualizing systems, and when you think about that overarching idea of on-demand cloud computing, the first step is interoperability. We found a lot of even on-demand providers who didn't go down the Web services and services-oriented route, having to go back, and re-architect their solution. It's important to have that kind of interoperability facilitated on a standardized basis to enable those kinds of activities to proceed.

Gardner: I believe we’ve run out of time. I certainly want to thank our guests. We’ve been speaking with Sandra Rogers of IDC, and Kelly Emo of HP Software. This webcast is sponsored by HP Software and includes commissioned research from IDC.

You can get more information at www.hp.com/go/soa.

This is your moderator, Dana Gardner, principal analyst at Interarbor Solutions. Thank you all for joining the webcast.

You’ve been listening to a sponsored BriefingsDirect Podcast on SOA adoption patterns based on original research from IDC and HP. Thanks for listening and come back next time.

Download the IDC report "A Study in Critical Success Factors for SOA."

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Transcript of Oct. 14, 2008 webinar on SOA research and how companies are implementing SOA more strategically based on essential adoption best practices.